Jokerz Race Ported Blower Results

[Blkout]

And therein lies a possible choke point. Does anyone make a snout that is full-size, no 95mm "bottleneck"? (not much of a bottleneck, especially if it's a smooth transition.)

Stock TB is 92mm and stock snout is 95mm. I believe early ported TB's for these cars were 95mm which matched the snout inlet. With a ported snout, its opened up to 112mm I believe since that's the largest TB available for these cars at the moment.

 

[Blkout]

Interesting info.

Its not cheap, but if you're looking to maximize your power on a pulley that will still run 93 octane, its well worth it since it seems to give about 60-80whp, that's far better bang for the buck than headers which will cost almost as much after installation.

 

[coolblue]

Its not cheap, but if you're looking to maximize your power on a pulley that will still run 93 octane, its well worth it since it seems to give about 60-80whp, that's far better bang for the buck than headers which will cost almost as much after installation.

Totally agree. On these cars headers are the last thing I would change for a HP increase. Since I've gotten older I realize how much BS these are. They give minimal gains for the $ (if any). On a 5.7 with a cast brick for an exhaust manifold maybe, but SRT's and Hellcats, it's a waste.
You also gave a definitive answer to a question. The size of the TB. Some literature said 95MM some said 92MM. But now I see that the actual TB is 92 and the snout hole is 95MM. The only thing I may have gotten confused on, is the RE/Demon TB is 95MM compared to regular Hellcat but again that's what I've read in some places and don't even know if that's accurate.

 

[Kat von Himmel]

Now I gotta get some 1700cc injectors

Why not go all the way up to 2300's?

Ah, Hellcat problems.

They are nice problems to have, like having to buy tuna-friendly dolphin meat for a picky supermodel wife.

2300 cc. LOL at trying to idle with an injector you could use as a fire hose. I wonder if it would, you know, actually be viable?

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

I’d be surprised if the smaller 2.65L EATON based Magnuson blower was significantly better than the twin screw 2.7L IHI blower. I haven’t seen anything to support that it is better, and what cars it comes on is irrelevant to me. Dodge is the only OEM to put a twin screw on a factory car that I’m aware of, and they could have just as easily gone with the EATON like everyone else. It’ll be interesting to be able to compare them, because either way we win...

 

[Kat von Himmel]

It's not an Eaton, unless an Eaton is not what I think it is. It's a hybrid roots, as in four-lobe rotors at high twist rate. I've been researching levels of overkill and the purveyors thereof. I even tried to track down a PSI blower to use, VERY underdriven, but the only place I could find that even dealt with them was in Australia, and they didn't answer any emails, but of course, if screwperchargers are your thing, The Whipple is the dominant force thus far in aftermarket brands.

From Magnuson's site:
"One of the most impressive aspects of this latest generation Magnuson supercharger system is that it can outflow the competition even though their supercharger displacement is significantly larger. In addition, it requires less horse power to spin the Vengeance TVS 2650 and its discharge temperatures are significantly lower allowing the supercharger to make over 1000 HP with the stock fuel system and 1200-1400+ HP when supported with upgraded fuel system and powertrain modifications!"

Can the IHI make over 1000hp with the stock fuel system? I actually do not know. Can someone chime in here who has done so? (this is at the crank, not WHP.) It seems that if the Magnuson can produce 1000 plus HP without upgrading the stock fuel system, and the IHI can't, then the Magnuson is making power more efficiently, isn't it?

IF Magnuson's claims are true.

I'd like to see a 3.5L Magnuson, and just turn it at a loafing RPM. Until I wanted it to scream, then swap the rear pulleys around (and load a different tune), et voila! Top Fuel Dragster! (in my imagination.) In FACT, I like the idea of an underdriven rear pulley setup, because swapping rear pulleys for an inverse-level-of-overdrive-versus-the-opposite-configuration really appeals to me.

However, it's academic in any case, because Magnuson seems desperate to scare off any and all Dodge Hellcat customers, as this has been Out Of Stock for MONTHS.

 

[Confuzed1]

Eaton makes rotors for different brands of blowers. I have a smaller Magnuson on my Camaro. Eaton makes the internal rotors for it, and it's a 2 rotor blower - semi helix rotors. Eaton also makes rotors for Edelbrock and others. Edelbrock sells a blower nearly identical to the Magnuson I have (with the identical Eaton rotors BTW). I'm sure there's other brands that use Eaton components too.

 

[Blkout]

It's not an Eaton, unless an Eaton is not what I think it is. It's a hybrid roots, as in four-lobe rotors at high twist rate. I've been researching levels of overkill and the purveyors thereof. I even tried to track down a PSI blower to use, VERY underdriven, but the only place I could find that even dealt with them was in Australia, and they didn't answer any emails, but of course, if screwperchargers are your thing, The Whipple is the dominant force thus far in aftermarket brands.

From Magnuson's site:
"One of the most impressive aspects of this latest generation Magnuson supercharger system is that it can outflow the competition even though their supercharger displacement is significantly larger. In addition, it requires less horse power to spin the Vengeance TVS 2650 and its discharge temperatures are significantly lower allowing the supercharger to make over 1000 HP with the stock fuel system and 1200-1400+ HP when supported with upgraded fuel system and powertrain modifications!"

Can the IHI make over 1000hp with the stock fuel system? I actually do not know. Can someone chime in here who has done so? (this is at the crank, not WHP.) It seems that if the Magnuson can produce 1000 plus HP without upgrading the stock fuel system, and the IHI can't, then the Magnuson is making power more efficiently, isn't it?

IF Magnuson's claims are true.

I'd like to see a 3.5L Magnuson, and just turn it at a loafing RPM. Until I wanted it to scream, then swap the rear pulleys around (and load a different tune), et voila! Top Fuel Dragster! (in my imagination.) In FACT, I like the idea of an underdriven rear pulley setup, because swapping rear pulleys for an inverse-level-of-overdrive-versus-the-opposite-configuration really appeals to me.

However, it's academic in any case, because Magnuson seems desperate to scare off any and all Dodge Hellcat customers, as this has been Out Of Stock for MONTHS.

View attachment 10584

Magnuson isnt making 1000hp on 93 octane and if E85 is being used, then possibly so, but it would require a newer model Cat with dual fuel pumps, and even then it would require larger injectors. It's possible to do it on race gas maybe with Demon injectors but that's really cutting it close and I have no doubt that a 2.7L IHI can match the 2.6L Magnuson. Bottom line, regardless of their claims, I haven't seen it proven yet. The Magnuson is supposed to be the most efficient blower available for these cars but we'll just have to wait and see until its proven.

 

[stonewall]

Blackout. I'm going to go out on a limb and say with your numbers it is very impressive. The thing that stands out to me would be that with the porting of the blower, and TB size you have improved the boost making ability of the stock blower to greater numbers than it was with the big pulley setup. I would check this as soon as possible. for it could effect a lot of parts longevity, if this thing is now pumping out 18 pounds of boost. By slowing down the Blower and gaining horsepower, An increase in boost is all it could be. short of having a incorrect tune prior, which is not very likely. Be careful until you figure this out and stay with good fuel.

 

[Blkout]

Blackout. I'm going to go out on a limb and say with your numbers it is very impressive. The thing that stands out to me would be that with the porting of the blower, and TB size you have improved the boost making ability of the stock blower to greater numbers than it was with the big pulley setup. I would check this as soon as possible. for it could effect a lot of parts longevity, if this thing is now pumping out 18 pounds of boost. By slowing down the Blower and gaining horsepower, An increase in boost is all it could be. short of having a incorrect tune prior, which is not very likely. Be careful until you figure this out and stay with good fuel.

It's not creating that much boost, the most I've seen so far has been 14psi. The porting has increased the efficiency of the blower which is where the power is coming from. Jokerz told me that they run this same 2.85 pulley/ported blower setup on their shop Trackhawk on pump gas.

 

[Kat von Himmel]

Magnuson isnt making 1000hp on 93 octane

So, you have verfiable evidence that Magnuson is not making 1000hp on 93 octane?

Their website didn't claim any octane numbers. It claimed that the fuel system didn't need upgrades to make 1000+hp. I informed them that their Hellcat blower package had been sold out for months, now they have yanked it off their site, from the picture page.

However, the page is still there, just not linked from the Dodge products page.

https://www.magnusonsuperchargers.com/product-p/01-26-62-502-bl.htm

They could be using 116 Octane gas. You won't get E85 to produce 1000 horse with the stock fuel system will you? Doesn't it require about twice the fuel volume?

From that page with the Hellcat setup. No claims of 93 octane.

Unleash the true potential of your Hellcat with the Magnuson Vengeance TVS2650Supercharger System!
Launching early 2018, the Vengeance TVS 2650 for the 2015+ Dodge Hellcat 6.2L V8. This OE replacement supercharger system is designed to deliver maximum performance while retaining factory-like drivability and reliability!
Inside of the supercharger manifold, the newest charge air cooler is 10% larger than the OE keeping your Intake Air Temperatures colder than competitors and provides consistent and repeatable performance! We have also retained the OE electronic by-pass valve to ensure the ECU remains in complete control of the desired boost levels.
One of the most impressive aspects of this latest generation Magnuson supercharger system is that it can outflow the competition even though their supercharger displacement is significantly larger. In addition, it requires less horse power to spin the Vengeance TVS 2650 and its discharge temperatures are significantly lower allowing the supercharger to make over 1000 HP with the stock fuel system and 1200-1400+ HP when supported with upgraded fuel system and powertrain modifications!


Hellcat Specifications

• TVS 2650 hybrid-roots supercharger
• 100% complete bolt-on system
• No hood modifications required
• Bazooka-Tube jackshaft system
• High flow intercooler system
• Massive 1” (-16AN) intercooler coolant fittings
• 105mm throttle body inlet
• Anodized aluminum fuel rails support over 1500HP
• Compatible with factory fuel injectors
• Interchangeable rear cog belt/pulleys for up to 27% overdrive
• Accepts stock electronic bypass valve and stock throttle body
• High thermal efficiency
• High helix four-lobe rotors

Recommended components for 1000+ HP

• 1000+ cc/min injectors
• Upgraded fuel pumps/lines
• 105mm throttle body
• Magnuson Crank Pulley Pin Kit (part# 31-26-61-102) for 2016 and earlier crankshafts
• Magnuson 27% overdrive cog pulley set

 

[Blkout]

So, you have verfiable evidence that Magnuson is not making 1000hp on 93 octane?

Their website didn't claim any octane numbers. It claimed that the fuel system didn't need upgrades to make 1000+hp.

They could be using 116 Octane gas. You won't get E85 to produce 1000 horse with the stock fuel system will you? Doesn't it require about twice the fuel volume?

Yea, I just don't see that being possible on a 6.2L stock block on 93 octane. The reason I said 93 octane is because you said they claim to do it on the stock fuel system. Newer Cats have dual fuel pumps so that resolves part of the problem that earlier Cats had, but I still doubt the stock Cat injectors flow enough fuel to make 1000hp reliably. Most 2.85 pullied Cats already max out the stock injectors which means at a minimum, an injector upgrade would be needed. I mentioned E85 because that's one way to get high octane fuel at get a nice bump in power over 93 octane but the injector requirements are higher. If race fuel is used, the injector requirements aren't as high but I still don't see the stock Cat injectors flowing enough for 1000hp. Just my .02 unless I see otherwise.

 

[Kat von Himmel]

Yea, I just don't see that being possible on a 6.2L stock block on 93 octane. The reason I said 93 octane is because you said they claim to do it on the stock fuel system. Newer Cats have dual fuel pumps so that resolves part of the problem that earlier Cats had, but I still doubt the stock Cat injectors flow enough fuel to make 1000hp reliably. Most 2.85 pullied Cats already max out the stock injectors which means at a minimum, an injector upgrade would be needed. I mentioned E85 because that's one way to get high octane fuel at get a nice bump in power over 93 octane but the injector requirements are higher. If race fuel is used, the injector requirements aren't as high but I still don't see the stock Cat injectors flowing enough for 1000hp. Just my .02 unless I see otherwise.

Yeah, they said they changed out the injectors on their facebook page. Maybe they should consider being a bit more accurate in their claims.


HELLCAT - 1001hp all on a completely STOCK engine/car besides our Vengeance 2650, injectors and a Borla catback!
https://www.facebook.com/magnacharg...sides-our-vengeance-2650-in/1021584047968322/

 

[Blkout]

Yeah, they said they changed out the injectors on their facebook page. Maybe they should consider being a bit more accurate in their claims.

View attachment 10608
HELLCAT - 1001hp all on a completely STOCK engine/car besides our Vengeance 2650, injectors and a Borla catback!
https://www.facebook.com/magnacharg...sides-our-vengeance-2650-in/1021584047968322/

So here's the thing, it would appear at first that car is making almost as much power as mine except mine makes more torque. It looks like they used Standard correction factor instead of SAE also which is going to read about 20-25whp higher. They also don't mention if that car is an M6 or A8, if its an M6, its going to dyno about 20-30whp higher than an A8. My engine is stock other than fuel system upgrades because its necessary at this power level. My exhaust is completely stock other than Vibrant mid mufflers. I consider my car to make a bit more power than many given the same mods, but I've been told that some of these cars can vary by 20-30whp. I also think that car has to be tuned also, even though they didn't mention that, I can't imagine they didn't tune it for the new blower. That being said, without some of those details, which trans, SAE correction, that can knock those power numbers down by more than 40-50whp. I don't want to sound unimpressed but if that car has 870whp using standard correction factor and even if its an A8 like mine, that's a 2.65L blower, mine is a ported 2.4L blower and mine is making at least 20-30whp more.

I don't want to flat out say its not possible, all I have to go on right now is that my performance shop says on a Redeye, they haven't been impressed and they're actually making 30whp less than the stock blower. The stock Redeye blower makes about 15psi and so far they've been testing the Magnuson at 18psi. It could be that there's more tuning to be done as well, but early results haven't shown what Magnuson is claiming.

 

[Marc W]

They don’t claim to do that on the stock fuel system. It says right there that the 1000hp package needs to upgrade the fuel system... including 1000+cc injectors, pumps and fuel lines. What they leave out is that obviously you also need to use higher octane fuel than pump 93. They should fix that. Also they state that it requires the overdrive pulley system. Also Also..... and it’s kinda a big one. That is not claimed to be whp. Around here we all talk whp as the measure of power. Depending on how generous you want to be with the the power train losses that 1000 hp is closer to 850. There are some shops (Gearheads down in FL for one) that are seeing very good results with this supercharger. They put a Demon into the eights with a otherwise stock engine with one of the Jokerz ported versions (same as Primetime here is getting).

 

[Blkout]

They don’t claim to do that on the stock fuel system. It says right there that the 1000hp package needs to upgrade the fuel system... including 1000+cc injectors, pumps and fuel lines. What they leave out is that obviously you also need to use higher octane fuel than pump 93. They should fix that. Also they state that it requires the overdrive pulley system. Also Also..... and it’s kinda a big one. That is not claimed to be whp. Around here we all talk whp as the measure of power. Depending on how generous you want to be with the the power train losses that 1000 hp is closer to 850. There are some shops (Gearheads down in FL for one) that are seeing very good results with this supercharger. They put a Demon into the eights with a otherwise stock engine with one of the Jokerz ported versions (same as Primetime here is getting).

Cool, like I said, I'm not trying to say what the Magnuson can or can't do, this thread was about Jokerz porting on a IHI supercharger. That being said, it just so happens that when I picked my car up, they had a Redeye there with a Magnuson and 105mm TB and they told me they're not impressed so far with it for the reasons I mentioned above vs the stock Redeye blower. Like I said, maybe there's more tuning to be done, but they implied that was not the case.

The Whipple cars didn't really start to produce big track numbers until just recently with a few cars getting into the low 9's and high 8's so I'm sure in time the Magnuson will also get better results eventually too. I just believe that a Jokerz ported IHI blower is going to be VERY difficult to beat for the money. The KB's seem to be the king of aftermarket blowers for these cars at the moment.

 

[Kat von Himmel]

So here's the thing, it would appear at first that car is making almost as much power as mine except mine makes more torque. It looks like they used Standard correction factor instead of SAE also which is going to read about 20-25whp higher. They also don't mention if that car is an M6 or A8, if its an M6, its going to dyno about 20-30whp higher than an A8. My engine is stock other than fuel system upgrades because its necessary at this power level. My exhaust is completely stock other than Vibrant mid mufflers. I consider my car to make a bit more power than many given the same mods, but I've been told that some of these cars can vary by 20-30whp. I also think that car has to be tuned also, even though they didn't mention that, I can't imagine they didn't tune it for the new blower. That being said, without some of those details, which trans, SAE correction, that can knock those power numbers down by more than 40-50whp.

I don't want to flat out say its not possible, all I have to go on right now is that my performance shop says on a Redeye, they haven't been impressed and they're actually making 30whp less than the stock blower. The stock Redeye blower makes about 15psi and so far they've been testing the Magnuson at 18psi. It could be that there's more tuning to be done as well, but early results haven't shown what Magnuson is claiming.

tsk tsk tsk. It would be fun to have a side-by-side comparison of the Whipple, IHI, (preferably RE or, woop woop the Hellephant) and Magnuson.

Someone should hold a contest. Buy three BSN Hellcats, same color and options, to eliminate variables. (Just kidding about the color) and then throw them at all three of the makers in a controlled environment where no hanky panky could be done. Oh, and why not throw a centrifugal blower system in there, too?

 

[Blkout]

tsk tsk tsk. It would be fun to have a side-by-side comparison of the Whipple, IHI, (preferably RE or, woop woop the Hellephant) and Magnuson.

Someone should hold a contest. Buy three BSN Hellcats, same color and options, to eliminate variables. (Just kidding about the color) and then throw them at all three of the makers in a controlled environment where no hanky panky could be done. Oh, and why not throw a centrifugal blower system in there, too?

And there's Kenne Bell which I believe is the best aftermarket blower available at the moment.

 

[Marc W]

The 2.7 is a impressive supercharger. There is no disputing that. If the Maggie is even as good, there really wouldn’t be anything to complain about. If the 2.7’s ever come down in price that would be even better. So far we’re not seeing much in that direction and the most recent sales I’ve seen with those have been at least as expensive as the Magnuson. Also when talking about the Maggie you have to remember that they have the stage one and two versions. I am very interested to see what the new Drag Paks are going to be running. The Winter Nationals are in three weeks and I still don’t know what they are running for a SC. They have kept that a secret. I know the COPO’s are running the 2.6 Maggie. The Cobra Jets are using the Whipple. If the Challengers aren’t running the Hellephant 3.0 then that says something.

 

[Marc W]

tsk tsk tsk. It would be fun to have a side-by-side comparison of the Whipple, IHI, (preferably RE or, woop woop the Hellephant) and Magnuson.

Someone should hold a contest. Buy three BSN Hellcats, same color and options, to eliminate variables. (Just kidding about the color) and then throw them at all three of the makers in a controlled environment where no hanky panky could be done. Oh, and why not throw a centrifugal blower system in there, too?

My shop is going to be doing that (hopefully next month). Three Hellcats on the dyno with side by side blower comparisons. Built 6.2 with a 4.9 KB. My 426 with the 4.5 Whipple and.... Primetime’s 426 with the new 2.6 Magnuson ported by Jokerz. All will be well over 1000whp.