95mm Fastman throttle body testing

[vortecd]

 

[coolblue]

Juuust had my RE tuned with a hellraiser 3.17, exhaust mods, and the Fastman 95mm throttle body. Can confirm no difference in power from the stock 92mm TB. The car def did bark louder through the pipes though. Also, after it reached full temp it would take a bit to settle down to idle on restart. I couldn't believe that with the bigger blower, smaller pulley, and less exhaust restriction it made none to almost no difference. I thought and was hoping for about 15hp.

 

[vortecd]

Forcing air through a throttle body normally shows not much gain but you would think when it is pulling through it is the restriction there would be unless it is big enough

 

[jonx96]

Did bmason lose a bet? I’m not crazy about his new facial hair style. All the best bmason if you see this

 

[vortecd]

Did bmason lose a bet? I’m not crazy about his new facial hair style. All the best bmason if you see this

Maybe it isn't the throttle body but the mustachio that is slowing him down

 

[jonx96]

Good info I like seeing the test. Not surprised on the results. More air than stock means more of a need.

 

[BULL]

A few thoughts, but I'm FAR from an expert with TBs... especially on these cars.

• Air has mass, therefor inertia
• With no changes other than a TB, you're going to have the same air charge (presuming that you weren't choked down before???)
• The SAME air mass through a larger diameter hole WILL move slower, therefor less inertia.

I can say that when I used to try to tune my bikes, OFTEN a larger carb would result in less power. Not really all that comparable, but it is at least a thought.

My final thought is that I bet this is on a bell-curve, and I doubt that Dodge choked down this engine when they were designing it. That is they probably made that TB big enough to give full power under idea conditions, and probably then some more.

.02

 

[vortecd]

A few thoughts, but I'm FAR from an expert with TBs... especially on these cars.

• Air has mass, therefor inertia
• With no changes other than a TB, you're going to have the same air charge (presuming that you weren't choked down before???)
• The SAME air mass through a larger diameter hole WILL move slower, therefor less inertia.

I can say that when I used to try to tune my bikes, OFTEN a larger carb would result in less power. Not really all that comparable, but it is at least a thought.

My final thought is that I bet this is on a bell-curve, and I doubt that Dodge choked down this engine when they were designing it. That is they probably made that TB big enough to give full power under idea conditions, and probably then some more.

.02

There are stories that an engineer on the project wanted a 95mm because it made more power but they didn't want to do it.

 

[BULL]

There are stories that an engineer on the project wanted a 95mm because it made more power but they didn't want to do it.

I know one of them, I'll ask.

 

[BULL]

Short answer is "no"...

 

[Old Mopar Guy]

Short answer is "no"...

That seems to be in line with Cools remarks above. Looks like I’ll be saving another few hundred! 👍

 

[BULL]

That seems to be in line with Cools remarks above. Looks like I’ll be saving another few hundred! 👍

I've gone back and forth with the build I've got pending. I'm sure somewhere in there is a break point for when a bigger intake will start to make an improvement, but for stock, or nearly stock, the answer seems to be not an appreciable difference.

This was even in reference to the Demon, so take that for what it's worth.

; )

 

[fubar569]

There really is no need for a larger throttle body until you're well into the 900 + range and even then it will take an aggressive combination to realize much of a gain.

Those that have significant flow mods and are spinning their car/blower to the moon are seeing good gains however.

 

[Mean Cat]

A few thoughts, but I'm FAR from an expert with TBs... especially on these cars.

• Air has mass, therefor inertia
• With no changes other than a TB, you're going to have the same air charge (presuming that you weren't choked down before???)
• The SAME air mass through a larger diameter hole WILL move slower, therefor less inertia.

I can say that when I used to try to tune my bikes, OFTEN a larger carb would result in less power. Not really all that comparable, but it is at least a thought.

My final thought is that I bet this is on a bell-curve, and I doubt that Dodge choked down this engine when they were designing it. That is they probably made that TB big enough to give full power under idea conditions, and probably then some more.

.02

I agree Bull, with what you mean about air flow velocity between smaller vs larger TB.
That test was on stock boost & 2500 DA, I think with more boost (pullies) & negative DA when the car is making more boost & power, the FM TB would do good.

 

[coolblue]

A few thoughts, but I'm FAR from an expert with TBs... especially on these cars.

• Air has mass, therefor inertia
• With no changes other than a TB, you're going to have the same air charge (presuming that you weren't choked down before???)
• The SAME air mass through a larger diameter hole WILL move slower, therefor less inertia.

I can say that when I used to try to tune my bikes, OFTEN a larger carb would result in less power. Not really all that comparable, but it is at least a thought.

My final thought is that I bet this is on a bell-curve, and I doubt that Dodge choked down this engine when they were designing it. That is they probably made that TB big enough to give full power under idea conditions, and probably then some more.

.02

I've gone back and forth with the build I've got pending. I'm sure somewhere in there is a break point for when a bigger intake will start to make an improvement, but for stock, or nearly stock, the answer seems to be not an appreciable difference.

This was even in reference to the Demon, so take that for what it's worth.

; )

Agree with everything you said. But my thinking was the 92mm was developed for the original 2015 Hellcat with a 2.4 blower and a cam with @215* intake duration @.050 lift. My RE has a 2.7 blower and a cam with @226* intake duration. I thought the 95mm would be good for something. It's not like I went 105,108,or 112mm. I went with the smallest increase and kept the factory electronics which I thought was conservative, compatible and safest for a daily driver. But no matter the thought process, the fact is, its not an appreciable amount.
Also, the Demon and a 426 were brought up for comparison. On the bigger 426 it made a difference, but not all that much.

 

[Hpindy]

I like the fastman throttle body. On a stock car with a locked ecu it gave me a crisper throttle response . As for more power I don't think there is much to be gained . Someone on the old site did a back to back and I think they picked up like 5 Hp. I forget how much torque .



Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[coolblue]

I like the fastman throttle body. On a stock car with a locked ecu it gave me a crisper throttle response . As for more power I don't think there is much to be gained . Someone on the old site did a back to back and I think they picked up like 5 Hp. I forget how much torque .



Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

That's also how I felt with it. It seemed like it was crisper or snappier or something. The exhaust note was even different (that's what I meant when I said barking louder through the pipes). The tranny also seemed to shift more like it had a shift kit. When I put the 92 back on, everything seemed more muted and calmer. And Idle control in neutral is definitely better. But it was explained to me that, that was because the computer was trying to compensate for more air (esp. at idle) and the factory computer was calibrated to the 92. So it seems snappier and faster and more aggressive but it was just less calibrated, and was just the 'feeling' of it. It sure did feel rowdier though with the 95.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

It all depends on the bottleneck… it takes a while before the TB is the bottleneck.
For other platforms and other blowers (Kenne Bell on Fords, for example) the larger TBs paid tremendous dividends…

 

[coolblue]

It all depends on the bottleneck… it takes a while before the TB is the bottleneck.
For other platforms and other blowers (Kenne Bell on Fords, for example) the larger TBs paid tremendous dividends…

I noticed that(with the Kenne Belle) years ago. When I put a Magnuson on my SRT I was researching different blowers for comparisons and cross reference. When I went on KB's web site (which actually had great tech info) they stated that you could not have a big enough TB for practically any blown setup. Maybe they were speaking of just theirs.
This may be nutty but something struck me when I pulled the snout on my 2.7 IHI setup. When I looked at the end plate holding the bearings for the rotors I thought "Man that thing is crowded!". Meaning, the casting has very little air flow area! I wondered if you added up all the "holes" that let the air through to the rotors what would the surface area add up to? It definitely didn't look like much. Could that be the bottle neck on the IHI? My smaller 2.3 Mag didn't seem that restricted and I've never dissected a Kenny Bell.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

Yes, it’s very crowded and I’m sure if someone measured it, it wouldn’t equate to much more than the same area as the stock TB.
Once you get into porting, things can change, but there isn’t a ton of room to be had.