What really is "STOCK"????

[Hellcat Cuda]

I'm an old school, old coot and I'm use to the "rules" and lingo from many years ago. Quite frankly, wherever we might be racing, we went by NHRA rules for determining the status of our cars. Today, I hear (or read) people quibbling about a car not being stock because an air filter was changed, a rear seat was removed, it has drag radials, it has lighter, after market wheels, modified exhaust, timing and fuel mixtures were changed, etc.

What the hell? If there were such a class like "as factory manufactured", then that could be disclosed and just those cars race each other. It certainly is not a fair race or comparison if one of those cars races another that has big drag radials installed.

By NHRA rules, a STOCK car can have long tube headers; exhaust system removed; lightweight wheels; 9" slicks / skinny fronts; ignition and fuel ratio adjusted; rear seat removed and certainly a few other things that I'm forgetting. To my understanding, the new Scat Pack 1320 qualifies for NHRA STOCK class, and all those deleted or changed items would apply. They wouldn't have to be "as factory manufactured".

I guess what I'm getting at here is, unless someone goes inside their engine and changes compression; changes the camshaft; ports the heads and intake manifold, the car is STOCK.

 

[TEXAS REDEYE]

People have been debating this for years in many different online forums. I like the term 'showroom stock' versus any old stock definition. Showroom stock would be like you drive it all around town, but change the tire pressures. IMHO drag radials is modded, as is CAI, tune, or anything else that adds to performance.

Now all we need is to have a thread....manual vs. auto..............or the infamous Chinese headers (OBX) whether people wanted them on their cars or not.

 

[Hunter]

People have been debating this for years in many different online forums. I like the term 'showroom stock' versus any old stock definition. Showroom stock would be like you drive it all around town, but change the tire pressures. IMHO drag radials is modded, as is CAI, tune, or anything else that adds to performance.

Now all we need is to have a thread....manual vs. auto..............or the infamous Chinese headers (OBX) whether people wanted them on their cars or not.

Yea.
Or even a Catch Can thread

 

[WhipCat]

I think changing wheels is completely fine. If your gonna go race to win and you show up in street tires. Your not a purist your an idiot. Your gonna lose.

I think once you start tinkering with it and start swapping full exhaust and changing the tune, that goes away from stock capability as your are enhancing the car.

Tires and wheels is just so you can get real accurate data and actually complete a clean pass.

 

[Stormtrooper1320]

I'm an old school, old coot and I'm use to the "rules" and lingo from many years ago. Quite frankly, wherever we might be racing, we went by NHRA rules for determining the status of our cars. Today, I hear (or read) people quibbling about a car not being stock because an air filter was changed, a rear seat was removed, it has drag radials, it has lighter, after market wheels, modified exhaust, timing and fuel mixtures were changed, etc.

What the hell? If there were such a class like "as factory manufactured", then that could be disclosed and just those cars race each other. It certainly is not a fair race or comparison if one of those cars races another that has big drag radials installed.

By NHRA rules, a STOCK car can have long tube headers; exhaust system removed; lightweight wheels; 9" slicks / skinny fronts; ignition and fuel ratio adjusted; rear seat removed and certainly a few other things that I'm forgetting. To my understanding, the new Scat Pack 1320 qualifies for NHRA STOCK class, and all those deleted or changed items would apply. They wouldn't have to be "as factory manufactured".

I guess what I'm getting at here is, unless someone goes inside their engine and changes compression; changes the camshaft; ports the heads and intake manifold, the car is STOCK.

Info right from Dodge on what classes the 1320 qualifies for:
https://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=20748&mid=

other info available online as well.....

 

[SilverBillet]

I don’t know why the discussion about NHRA legal stock? It’s a non factor in this case. It’s just a matter of modified or not. The OP has a very original new car except for wheels and tires and it runs great and can pull a front wheel with more than enough daylight to verify that it did. I think class racing these cars is a long shot especially for the average guy. It would take a factory sponsorship to even try campaigning in NHRA. I haven’t heard of any tracks in our mid-Atlantic area actually running NHRA races. The class record for the class it would run in is very low. You would have to throw a lot of money at it to be competitive. I can’t even imagine how you could get the car to weigh 3,400 lbs? It’s interesting to think about...

 

[Hickster]

It is the piece of wood on my AK 47.

 

[hellno]

Stock is the way it came brand new no changes period,now who hell wants to be stock anyway, everyone says it’s stock EXCEPT then they say I have race wheels lol

 

[moparjim]

Stock is the way it came brand new no changes period,now who hell wants to be stock anyway, everyone says it’s stock EXCEPT then they say I have race wheels lol

Ahem! I do want to stay stock.
Power wise anyways.


I have run stock as in dealer delivered. As well as with a rear drag radial.
Also a ds and drag radial.
Then with skinnies. I stuck with each phase until I got to milestones others have posted.
Some accept the first one as stock. Then the rest are varying degrees of acceptance. Unless of course some one runs a number that not many if any have. Then its no where near stock. LOL

I personally have no issue with a car on drag wheels and rear seat delete. Because it now comes with a rear delete.
CAI, modified exhaust and missing glove box or door panels is going too far.
Even though I would accept it I realize many wouldn't so I always mention mine is on stock power.

 

[Stormtrooper1320]

Ahem! I do want to stay stock.
Power wise anyways.


I have run stock as in dealer delivered. As well as with a rear drag radial.
Also a ds and drag radial.
Then with skinnies. I stuck with each phase until I got to milestones others have posted.
Some accept the first one as stock. Then the rest are varying degrees of acceptance. Unless of course some one runs a number that not many if any have. Then its no where near stock. LOL

I personally have no issue with a car on drag wheels and rear seat delete. Because it now comes with a rear delete.
CAI, modified exhaust and missing glove box or door panels is going too far.
Even though I would accept it I realize many wouldn't so I always mention mine is on stock power.

Does the flow through headlight on the drivers side that feeds direct into the airbox count as a CAI?
Ready....set....GO!

 

[Hellcat Cuda]

Info right from Dodge on what classes the 1320 qualifies for:
https://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=20748&mid=

other info available online as well.....

Yes, thank you. I found that earlier. So, B/SA or SS/FA. I can see where it should do fine in F Stock and pretty much any rule that applies to old classics in stock class can apply to the 1320. There are a lot of mods that would not be considered "showroom stock".

Super Stock will be interesting though. It's legal to use an aftermarket intake manifold in Super Stock, but you have to use the original carburation. Wonder how this would apply to a 1320. I don't think there's a lot out there in the aftermarket that could bolt on and be an improvement, and you'd lose the variable intake runners that give the stock car some nice grunt down low. This will be interesting.

(FWIW, Stock and Super Stock have always been my favorite classes at an NHRA race. In the Pro classes, well, Pro Stock of course!) When Funny Car and Top Fuel dragsters run, I head to the pits to check out the Stock and Super Stockers up close!

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

To me what matters is if I am going to race my Hellcat down the 1/4 mile then I am going to use a separate dedicated set of wheels with drag radials.

I also had an AL Driveshaft installed, for the safety of my Hellcat. The 15's were known to twist. Having the Stock driveshaft is a plus if you happen to break an aftermarket one. A quick fix!

Now I reccomend the DIR Brace

In 2015 I was attending a T&T at Atco. The Tech said to me the only thing he didn't like about the Hellcat were the Tires they came with. He was glad I had Drag Radials on.

I know when most are saying their car is stock except .......drag radials it means they have not Tuned or done anything work on their motor or SC.

If I hear my HC is completely stock like it came off the "Show" room floor well then I think they are a "Shine and "Show" person.

Linda

 

[moparjim]

If I hear my HC is completely stock like it came off the "Show" room floor well then I think they are a "Shine and "Show" person.

Linda

Or some poor bugger put his car back to stock just as the air got good because of a part failure.
😫😉

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

Or some poor bugger put his car back to stock just as the air got good because of a part failure.
😫😉

That's Right!

 

[RedEye19FL]

Ahem! I do want to stay stock.
Power wise anyways.


I have run stock as in dealer delivered. As well as with a rear drag radial.
Also a ds and drag radial.
Then with skinnies. I stuck with each phase until I got to milestones others have posted.
Some accept the first one as stock. Then the rest are varying degrees of acceptance. Unless of course some one runs a number that not many if any have. Then its no where near stock. LOL

I personally have no issue with a car on drag wheels and rear seat delete. Because it now comes with a rear delete.
CAI, modified exhaust and missing glove box or door panels is going too far.
Even though I would accept it I realize many wouldn't so I always mention mine is on stock power.

Jim, I know Hellcat engines can vary slightly power wise from one to another. Have you ever put your car on a dyno to see if you are a "outlier" and much stronger than average?

 

[Hellcat Cuda]

I don’t know why the discussion about NHRA legal stock? It’s a non factor in this case. It’s just a matter of modified or not. The OP has a very original new car except for wheels and tires and it runs great and can pull a front wheel with more than enough daylight to verify that it did. I think class racing these cars is a long shot especially for the average guy. It would take a factory sponsorship to even try campaigning in NHRA. I haven’t heard of any tracks in our mid-Atlantic area actually running NHRA races. The class record for the class it would run in is very low. You would have to throw a lot of money at it to be competitive. I can’t even imagine how you could get the car to weigh 3,400 lbs? It’s interesting to think about...

The reason for the talk about NHRA legal stock is because I brought it up to talk about, for anyone who wishes to engage, since the 1320 is qualified for NHRA racing. I'm the OP (not sure who you're talking about) and I have a Red Eye that is the fastest car I've ever owned, but all I can really do is chase PBs with it, or bracket race. I really like the 1320 since it's qualified for the NHRA Stock and Super Stock classes. Those are my favorite classes in racing and I've "missed the boat" for buying one (too big of depreciation hit if I sold my RE).

I doubt the factory will be sponsoring any 1320s for racing, unless it were a notable, experienced driver like Leah Pritchett or ? We have 3-4 main tracks on the west coast and yes, it would take a dedicated racer to at least campaign in Division 7. People do it all the time with their "classic" Stockers / Super Stockers. The 1320s would be no different. The main investment would be the car itself. From there, you'd remove the exhaust system and run long tube headers; run (1) seat; run light weight racing wheels with 9" wrinkle wall slicks and skinnies up front. Since old school cars can be "tuned" physically (dwell, timing, carb jets), I would think you could perform an optimum "tune" on the 1320 to include running without cats. 3,400 is the MINIMUM weight, not mandatory. You'd want to get it down as low as legally possible for the sake of being competitive. The "record" I believe is in the high tens (the last I checked), but not everyone runs on the record. If the record holder is on one coast and you're on the other, chances are you won't run him. If you did, who knows, maybe he'll red light against you? lolol I think that 1320 could be a real blast to own for someone who wants to take it to it's "class" capabilitiy and not just use it to bracket race at the local track.

 

[moparjim]

Jim, I know Hellcat engines can vary slightly power wise from one to another. Have you ever put your car on a dyno to see if you are a "outlier" and much stronger than average?

No I have not mostly due to the various results from one dyno to another. As well as the chance of setting up the dyno to read different numbers. No matter what the results are they will be argued to no end. As it is time slips don't count for anything anymore in some circles. SMH
I know I can go to any dealer and they will not find a p1400 code anywhere. Could my car be making more power? Possibly I guess. There is a guy at my track with a stock powered cat that used to be quicker than me regularly the first year I ran my car. Now I try to help him as much as I can as he is always a little slower. Sometimes by more than others.
There is another stock powered cat that runs very similar times to mine. He runs a 3.09 gear.
On the same day at the same track we can be within a tenth and a half of each other.
My track is known to be the quickest track around due to prep.
That helps as I can line up and send it knowing it will hook almost always. Instead of trying to figure out what I can get away with.
10 to 15 passes a day is normal for me at my track. I am at the track at least once almost every weekend. So lots of seat time as well as trying and testing lots of things and theories every weekend.
Like gains with skinnies or removing the rear seat. I'm starting to think removing my front sway bar is actually hurting my 60' slightly. Many will argue that but that is what I'm starting to think with my car. I will be trying that on and off for awhile longer before I decide. It was actually a fellow racer with a 300 that made me start to look into that. He is convinced his car is better with it on. At my stock power I'm leaning towards agreeing with him.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

Some Match Game:

Weird Harold was so weird, that he said, "I must be unmodified, because this girl keeps calling me a (blank)!"

A cave Man!

 

[HRJ]

It's either stock or it's not.

 

[rayzazoo]

For magazine comparison tests, stock is “as-is” from the dealership.