Dodge Redeyes

[1971demon]

Too Complicated. My question was simple. No one thinks this is a 96K MSRP car. Dodge could have had it at $139,999 and the line STILL goes out the door. In this case, I get it (EV coming, save the dealers). But there are other cars (Gen 3 Ford GT; Raptors; TRX, etc) where the OEM could have charged WAY more but they didn't do it. Why not? No logical answer has been suggested yet. But I'll wait....I'm patient!

I believe lessons were learned with the 18 Demon...a segment of those who bought @ MSRP or modest ADM's...turned around and flipped these cars for hefty profits...I don't believe this sat well with the dealer network..(understandably so)..I would speculate 30% or more got flipped...was there collusion amongst the dealers this time around....of course..can you blame them ?..maybe..maybe not...the motor company is not..(and should not) get involved with how the dealer network retails these cars...are there those who feel they got shafted for not getting an MSRP deal.. sure...But I cant help but think a vast majority would have flipped them and cashed in big time...now the dealers are cashing in big time,,and those who intended on flipping...not gonna happen...

 

[EricG]

More than anything else, this is just a harsh lesson in supply and demand economics, and in this case the demand was/is extreme. Capitalism is probably better than anything else, but you can't call it perfect. And remember the golden rule, the one with the gold makes the rules Fair...fair is where you judge cattle.

 

[1971demon]

More than anything else, this is just a harsh lesson in supply and demand economics, and in this case the demand was/is extreme. Capitalism is probably better than anything else, but you can't call it perfect. And remember the golden rule, the one with the gold makes the rules Fair...a fair is where you judge cattle.

At the end of the day...the general feeling was this was a 125/140 plus car all day...and later this year when the dust settles...I'll bet there will be cars available for 150....If you feel the value is there..and wanna keep it and enjoy it...step up and pay the 150....just my .02

 

[EricG]

At the end of the day...the general feeling was this was a 125/140 plus car all day...and later this year when the dust settles...I'll bet there will be cars available for 150....If you feel the value is there..and wanna keep it and enjoy it...step up and pay the 150....just my .02

I dunno, in the end we will see if there are some available. I hope you are right but I kind of doubt it though. And, optioned out with the CF wheels, these are $120k+ anyway, aren't they?

 

[Boris]

I have no doubt that figure is correct, IF you count the orders sold to themselves and

Im sure some of it is correct.
Dealers sold the allocation for 100k but then the car for MSRP. Or they sold a 1996 Plymouth Voyager for 100k etc.
Dealers who are keeping the car paid invoice.
The 300 or so specials were the person has the allocation and not the dealer likely got to pick their price.

The rest of us, fucked.

Too Complicated. My question was simple. No one thinks this is a 96K MSRP car. Dodge could have had it at $139,999 and the line STILL goes out the door. In this case, I get it (EV coming, save the dealers). But there are other cars (Gen 3 Ford GT; Raptors; TRX, etc) where the OEM could have charged WAY more but they didn't do it. Why not? No logical answer has been suggested yet. But I'll wait....I'm patient!

The Ford GT in 2005 was not a loved/wanted car. I remember seeing those cars used under 120k and falling.
Didn't really have the cash at the time, but I remember thinking if they got under 100k i'd try and buy one. They got close but never made it.
Then someone went 250mph in one at the Texas mile and the values took off.

Also, the Gen V Viper was overpriced from Dodge. They wanted something like 100k base MSRP for the SRT and GTS was 120k. Then add dealer markup that pushed the cars over 150k. No one bought them.
My local dealer had 3 of them and it took a year after the price cut to sell them!

I don't think Dodge was very aggressive in pricing the 170.
Chevy put the Z06 over 100k base when many thought it would start under 90k.
Raptor R was 105 or 110k. The TRX has jumped up a lot. My 21 stickered at 77k for a level 1, now you can't even get the base under 80k!

Escalade V IMO is really over priced at 150k msrp but they are selling with a huge markup as well.

Today's world is just different. A ton of money supply is out in the real world and its obviously having an effect on car prices.
If the 170 was being released in 2019 or 2020 it isn't seeing 100k markups on it.

 

[Bowtie Guy]

I dunno, in the end we will see if there are some available. I hope you are right but I kind of doubt it though. And, optioned out with the CF wheels, these are $120k+ anyway, aren't they?

Not too many options
CF wheels that are not available
Useless sunroof
Interior which includes all kinds of shit
Stripes
Nav

I d guess north of 120K if you include the sunroof

 

[EricG]

The TRX has jumped up a lot. My 21 stickered at 77k for a level 1, now you can't even get the base under 80k!

The TRX will be an interesting one to watch. They are making them like crazy and I see so many low-mile trade-ins, probably people coming to grips with the reality of actually owning and re-fueling one on a regular basis.

I said this a long time ago, but I expect a similar to the Challenger Hellcat scenario where they not only offer a redeye version before they are done, but also sell they way below sticker to move them, which looks like an apparent money loss for them but being in the later cycle of the model, costs are lower and profits are higher for them even at a lower selling price point.

 

[Illegal_Demon]

From what I know there are papers to be signed / initialed

Purchased at MSRP "YES" or "NO"
Check 1
I assume 62% signed / initialed "YES"

I m surprised it is 62 not 95 percent

Would I pay over MSRP & check off the "YES" box

You bet your ass I would

The dealership I am buying my D170 through (at +5K) would NOT sign off on checking MSRP. There are a few honest ppl/dealers out there. Unfortunately, honesty could finish last here.
That said, as I have posted previously, I personally think the build schedule will be a much more practical affair (and much less tied to MSRP/ADM). Line scheduling and supply-chain logistical details are much more likely to rule the day.

 

[Boris]

I believe lessons were learned with the 18 Demon...a segment of those who bought @ MSRP or modest ADM's...turned around and flipped these cars for hefty profits...I don't believe this sat well with the dealer network..(understandably so)..I would speculate 30% or more got flipped...was there collusion amongst the dealers this time around....of course..can you blame them ?..maybe..maybe not...the motor company is not..(and should not) get involved with how the dealer network retails these cars...are there those who feel they got shafted for not getting an MSRP deal.. sure...But I cant help but think a vast majority would have flipped them and cashed in big time...now the dealers are cashing in big time,,and those who intended on flipping...not gonna happen...

The Demon flips happened quickly.
But by 2019, the Demon market had cooled. There was one on BAT that sold for 105k or something in 2019. A loaded Demon OTD was probably 105k depending on taxes etc.

As for the motor company, I disagree. They should be involved because when a dealer does bad, it looks bad on the manufacturer.

The more press about markups and bad dealer tactics get out, that reflects on Dodge. And if you listen to Timmy talk, they are watching what is being said about their company. Dodge doesn't want these practices in place because it drives away customers.

Lets say you buy a Demon 170 and love the thing. You take it to the track to race it. But realize, its not a car its a toy. You need a truck. Its likely you are going to go back and buy a Ram truck.
Now, your wife or kids want a car. Back to that same dealer for a Wagoneer or Pacifica for the wife and a Wrangler for the kid.

But if you pissed off that buyer they might go and order a Mustang Dark Horse at MSRP. Now they buy a F150, Bronco, and Expedition.
And all the oil changes, tire rotations, brake jobs, service intervals etc that come with it.
And its likely they become repeat customers in 3-5 years.

I know several people who are brand loyal based off of their first transaction being so great.

I remember talking to a gentlemen at the drag strip that got big into Chevys because of the Z/28. He raced a 911 for years. But then got jerked around when he wanted to step up to the GT3.
Chevy announced the Z/28 and he bought it and never looked back.
Bought a 2500 Silverado.
Wife got a Caddy
And he was drag racing a 6th gen ZL1 at the time I was talking to him.

Hard times will return, it will be nice to have loyal customers to get you through those moments.

But we all have learned, these dealers don't give a fuck about any of that.

 

[2pac]

The TRX will be an interesting one to watch. They are making them like crazy and I see so many low-mile trade-ins, probably people coming to grips with the reality of actually owning and re-fueling one on a regular basis.

I said this a long time ago, but I expect a similar to the Challenger Hellcat scenario where they not only offer a redeye version before they are done, but also sell they way below sticker to move them, which looks like an apparent money loss for them but being in the later cycle of the model, costs are lower and profits are higher for them even at a lower selling price point.

Lots of people flipping the trx's as well. Order way below msrp and then sell for msrp and profit.

You can already see demand cratering with the durango hellcats that are available at msrp or modest markups.

Even regular 22 hellcats were available at msrp and have heard the 23 hellcat allocations are now available at msrp too.

I thought the trx and durango should have gotten a redeye but it seems like the redeye motors are being saved for the chargers and challengers. Maybe in 2024 they will introduce a trx redeye

 

[Jimmy N.]

Maybe in 2024 they will introduce a trx redeye

With the 6-banger, making 35 hp more than the regular Hurricane?

 

[2pac]

With the 6-banger, making 35 hp more than the regular Hurricane?

Trucks are exempt from epa/fuel economy standards to the best of my knowledge. Hence why trx has no gas guzzler tax.

I would expect trx to exist for another year or so, until ram moves to an updated or new platform.

 

[Boris]

Trucks are exempt from epa/fuel economy standards to the best of my knowledge. Hence why trx has no gas guzzler tax.

I would expect trx to exist for another year or so, until ram moves to an updated or new platform.

Supposedly there have been 7 2024 TRXs built with the Hellcat engine and 1 with the Hurricane.

 

[Jimmy N.]

Even though a prototype has supposedly been spotted with the 6? Not yet verified, but it may be soon.

Of course, they could sell both versions. One for people who just can't stand the power, exhaust sound, and blower whine.

 

[2pac]

Even though a prototype has supposedly been spotted with the 6? Not yet verified, but it may be soon.

Of course, they could sell both versions. One for people who just can't stand the power, exhaust sound, and blower whine.

I would imagine they sell both, maybe even all 3 if they develop a redeye in response to the raptor R.

There's a large portion of raptor 3.5 owners that love their sound and fuel economy.

The 6 cylinder done right doesn't sound bad at all.

 

[Bowtie Guy]

Even though a prototype has supposedly been spotted with the 6? Not yet verified, but it may be soon.

Of course, they could sell both versions. One for people who just can't stand the power, exhaust sound, and blower whine.

Here is a shot of the inline 6 with a police escort

Well maybe its not a 6



https://www.facebook.com/reel/622592929335783?mibextid=9drbnH&s=yWDuG2&fs=e

 

[Bobo]

Here is a shot of the inline 6 with a police escort

Well maybe its not a 6



https://www.facebook.com/reel/622592929335783?mibextid=9drbnH&s=yWDuG2&fs=e

Sorry but that’s stupid! Freakin video games

 

[HWDan]

Here is a shot of the inline 6 with a police escort

Well maybe its not a 6



https://www.facebook.com/reel/622592929335783?mibextid=9drbnH&s=yWDuG2&fs=e

Probably video game animation or a F&F or some movie shoot.

 

[Ronin]

Looks like GTA...

 

[Jimmy N.]

Was that in Australia, or why did it lift the right side?