Other Forced Induction Options.

[motorhead]

It is really interesting to see what happens when you move away from your comfort zones:

https://www.hellionpowersystems.com/product/hellion-2006-2019-hemi-sleeper-hidden-twin-turbo-system/

Want big reliable power? Time to start thinking about dumping the PD blowers (especially now that they are being overspun and chewing up/grenading rotors) for other options like Prochargers or turbos. There is a lot of misinformation being peddled to owners who want much more power and how to get there. Everything is a recipe designed to make the vendor money. Also notice the number of GM PD blower cars with meth on them? Still voodoo around here.

 

[Hellcatcfp]

Always been interested in the Prochargers.

 

[Stormtrooper1320]

Always been interested in the Prochargers.

I like Prochargers too. We saw a really nice Vortec set-up on a Challenger at ATCO in the fall. It was well done and it looked like they had made some changes since earlier set-ups that really cleaned up the install.

 

[Hpindy]

I'm quite happy with my PD set up . I'm not a fan of turbos . I had a procharger on one of my trucks . It was fun

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[Jack_Toepfer]

I’ve had it all... custom twins, big singles, centrifugal, roots, twin screw, and I’ll only ever have turbo(s) or screws going forward.
I haven’t experienced the bigger 2650 roots type yet, but with all of the twin screws out there I have no reason to - especially on a Hellcat.
Going through the trouble of a custom intake on a Hellcat? Don’t dick around with a centri... put a turbo on it and be done.
Prochargers work for people, no doubt, just not my cup of tea.

 

[moparjim]

I'm quite happy with my PD set up . I'm not a fan of turbos . I had a procharger on one of my trucks . It was fun

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So we can't be friends anymore?
It's starting to look like someone may be at the track in a 6cyl turbo car from the 80's instead of a cat.😉

 

[Hpindy]

Lol na you are part of "team Jim" . Why do you want to slow down? Getting old!

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[moparjim]

Lol na you are part of "team Jim" . Why do you want to slow down? Getting old!

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No because of getting old. LOL
But someone may want a certain cat and our time together is coming to an end in a year or so likely. So why not try something new and run my 7k car instead of a 70k car.
Due to the deal I got when I bought it I have a chance of getting most of my money back.
This way I won't have to scale back my track time this year.

 

[Hpindy]

No because of getting old. LOL
But someone may want a certain cat and our time together is coming to an end in a year or so likely. So why not try something new and run my 7k car instead of a 70k car.
Due to the deal I got when I bought it I have a chance of getting most of my money back.
This way I won't have to scale back my track time this year.

I hear ya . It will be a shame when it's gone . It is always fun watching you put frowns on other peoples faces at the track or listening to all the excesses ( Canadian tracks are different from USA tracks , etc ) lol

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[motorhead]

I am not suggesting that these PD blowers are bad when kept within their design limitations. Nor are they ineffective for getting these boats moving. The application, in stock form and to certain hightened levels, is arguably perfect. That's why I got one.

My emphasis is on those who are going after big dog numbers/ETs and having some serious reliability and tuning issues using aftermarket PD blowers. Especially with the adaptation of the stock bypass valve. Boost control and drivability go up exponentially (along with power and efficiency) using centrifugal SCs or turbos.

Having airflow control issues at idle with a cogged large frame Procharger? Add another bypass valve. Not to mention a wastegate can be added to a centrifugal SC to set an actual boost curve.

Is a HC still a HC without a PD blower? I dunno. Does a HC make a good race car to begin with? Debatable. But, does a HC without a janky PD blower setup make a better racecar? You betcha.

Also, @moparjim you won't be alone in a G-Body racing this summer.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

You’ve mentioned blown up blowers several times now... Cole was spinning his as fast as anyone and he only blew his up because of a nitrous backfire. I recall seeing 1 other on here and I think it was related to some bearing repair that went wrong, though I could have that mixed up. Are a lot of people experiencing failures because of RPM?

 

[Hpindy]

I am not suggesting that these PD blowers are bad when kept within their design limitations. Nor are they ineffective for getting these boats moving. The application, in stock form and to certain hightened levels, is arguably perfect. That's why I got one.

My emphasis is on those who are going after big dog numbers/ETs and having some serious reliability and tuning issues using aftermarket PD blowers. Especially with the adaptation of the stock bypass valve. Boost control and drivability go up exponentially (along with power and efficiency) using centrifugal SCs or turbos.

Having airflow control issues at idle with a cogged large frame Procharger? Add another bypass valve. Not to mention a wastegate can be added to a centrifugal SC to set an actual boost curve.

Is a HC still a HC without a PD blower? I dunno. Does a HC make a good race car to begin with? Debatable. But, does a HC without a janky PD blower setup make a better racecar? You betcha.

Also, @moparjim you won't be alone in a G-Body racing this summer.

I definitely agree with the efficiency theory. That's why I got a bigger supercharger! I also agree that for an all out racecar the factory 2.4L is not your best bet . My car is 95% street car . I mean road trips, drive anywhere any time not look I made it to the store and back with out over heating or tearing up a roller lifter lol .

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[motorhead]

You’ve mentioned blown up blowers several times now... Cole was spinning his as fast as anyone and he only blew his up because of a nitrous backfire. I recall seeing 1 other on here and I think it was related to some bearing repair that went wrong, though I could have that mixed up. Are a lot of people experiencing failures because of RPM?

What's happening and who's disclosing are two completely different things. Keep in mind that the PD blowers, or anything mechanical, has a critical operating speed and is influenced by vibration, heat, and the associated tolerances. So when Start-up Company A sells you Stage X kit with a 2.65 upper, a 10% UD lower, and mechanical means to address the belt wrap/slip issue it creates you can pretty safely assume they didn't actually do a failure analysis on the critical facts impacting that decision. It is a compounding issue that doesn't come with assurances or accountability. But, by comparison if you do take an engineered solution from Established Company B that offers options that take into consideration these factors with few compromises you can see how it may be more advisable. It is the concept of informed consent.

I've been advocating that most people are ignorant to the effects of RPM soup to nuts on these cars and may be asking too much or promised solutions that under deliver or are unwilling to accept they are subject to both. So if you look at the step up ratio in the blower (where it multiplies engine RPM to create rotor speed) and think running a series of pulleys and upping the rev limit is a good idea - maybe it isn't.

Interestingly enough there is a recent Demonology video where there look at the rotor lobes in his blower before sending it off for porting, and the words "looks better than most" were spoken. This is anecdotal evidence that there may be a trend emerging.

 

[Hellcatcfp]

On our Hellcats...wonder what max RPMs is? 50,000 RPMs? I am assuming boost levels directly correlate to rotor RPMs? Great topic as I am still a newbie.

 

[Speedy!]

I'm good with my PD blower, but my goals aren't to have a race car. If there were a good streetable solution turbos would be my second choice. Somehow companies figure out how to get twins under the hood of smaller Mustangs and Camaros but we can't seem to figure that out on the Challenger.

Demonology's supercharger looked like it was close to failure. He recently put up a video of it at Jokerz getting some massaging and the rotors appeared to have started making contact. I think he's running a 10% lower an 2.65 upper if memory serves and beats the piss out of the car racing it many nights a week.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

This is anecdotal evidence that there may be a trend emerging.

Witnessing some lobe wear and claiming that there is an abundance of exploding blowers not being reported anywhere - is quite a stretch. We have a fairly large sample of overspun blowers on this very forum... I think 2 of them have had catastrophic failure, and neither of them were directly associated with RPM. So, I'm trying to expand my knowledge of what's making them blow, not what could be making them blow eventually.

Speaking of reputable companies... ProCharger botched the release of their WK2 kits in embarrassing fashion. So much so that our smaller shops had to release their own kits to help people get them to work. ProCharger didn't do any analysis I guess, because they couldn't get the kit to work on any vehicle other than their own. It happens to the best of them, nobody is immune, and I'm not here to bash them... just point out that there is a lot of hearsay coming from you about exploding blowers, and I just wanted to know where they all were. I'm not on Facebook, so that would be an acceptable answer, and really the one I was expecting.

I asked a vendor where the pile of bad Hellcat motors was when they tried scaring everyone into believing that stock crank pulleys are spinning off left and right and wiping out the motors. No evidence was provided, but they did cite how many they have seen, and also how many Hellcats they've serviced. I was able to extrapolate that using the number of Hellcats produced, and there should be thousands of us with bad motors as a result of their significant sample. That also wasn't the case.

It's all good, but I'd still recommend to anyone to pulley the beast and let it eat. Use what FCA gave us because it meets 99% of our needs (runs 8s and crushes at mile+ events)

 

[Magnified]

I've always been a PD guy myself. Prochargers have their place, don't get me wrong. Seen some bad installs though. And the PD is generally reliable and simple to tune (at least has been for me) and there's a reason the majors tend to go that route. At least for the warranty period, with a proper tune there is small chance of anything going wrong other than a manufacturing defect.

 

[Stormtrooper1320]

I've always been a PD guy myself. Prochargers have their place, don't get me wrong. Seen some bad installs though. And the PD is generally reliable and simple to tune (at least has been for me) and there's a reason the majors tend to go that route. At least for the warranty period, with a proper tune there is small chance of anything going wrong other than a manufacturing defect.

View attachment 10963

I know it's wrong....but I laughed at that quite a bit. Of course I'd like to see the follow-up to see if that guy gets up and throws down.

 

[Speedy!]

You ever hear a Procharger? Jus' sayin'.

 

[Magnified]

You ever hear a Procharger? Jus' sayin'.

This.