Flex Fuel Tuning

[Hpindy]

No plans on pulley changes, this combo already is making a hair to much boost for 93 at times and I want the ability to go back to 93 at a moments notice with a decent amount of confidence it’s safe to do. I think the tuner has this same mentality and concern as well, I listen to him with both ears and trust his judgement and recommendations!

Then you are on the right path . With a conservative pump gas tune with the ability to ramp up the fun with E85 on the fly is the best of both worlds .

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[16GoManGoHC2]

Is that 77.5% tested with a tube or do you have a gauge?

At the moment I am testing it with a highly accurate Kent Moore Digital Fuel Composition tester. Fuel is testing around 81-82 % last fill. It’s a bit cumbersome but it works instantly.
display reading minus 50 is alcohol %
Pictured is 83%E

 

[Speedy!]

On my flex fuel tune I treat 93 as a "going to get groceries" fuel and don't hammer on it just to be on the safe side. Also, not sure how your tuner has your AFR gauge setup, but I like mine to read actual fuel AFR, so on 93 it reads 14.x at idle. E50 it's about 12.x, E60 11.x, E85 9.x etc. This way I know its doing it's thing properly.

Do you have the dual fuel pumps installed? I see your fuel pump DC is 89% which is max. Fuel pressure commanded is 94 and your at 90psi, so still "OK" but keep an eye on that.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

On my flex fuel tune I treat 93 as a "going to get groceries" fuel and don't hammer on it just to be on the safe side. Also, not sure how your tuner has your AFR gauge setup, but I like mine to read actual fuel AFR, so on 93 it reads 14.x at idle. E50 it's about 12.x, E60 11.x, E85 9.x etc. This way I know its doing it's thing properly.

Do you have the dual fuel pumps installed? I see your fuel pump DC is 89% which is max. Fuel pressure commanded is 94 and your at 90psi, so still "OK" but keep an eye on that.

Yes, AFR gauge set up pretty much like that, I can tell from it about what % alcohol the car thinks it’s running.
Yes, running the dual 285 pumps and they do hit 89% DC but I have not seen that often, they are lower now mostly around 84%, don’t know why, pumps bedded in and delivering more?? But YES, I’ll keep an eye on it. THANKS MUCH for the tip!!

My 93 portion of the flex tune has only 12 degrees of timing in it so I can hammer on it but just won’t get full potential out of it. If I go back on 93 for a planned long duration I’ll go back to my original 93 tune, it only takes a minute to load. I’ve had to do that often in the process of dialing in the % calculating portion of the tune.

 

[Speedy!]

It's not the timing in the base map that's the concern. It's the car getting confused and using the alcohol map by mistake when 93 is in the tank. Unlikely but better safe than sorry.

 

[Hpindy]

It's not the timing in the base map that's the concern. It's the car getting confused and using the alcohol map by mistake when 93 is in the tank. Unlikely but better safe than sorry.

I think it's a good idea to drive the car around and get the trims settled before beating on it .

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[Hpindy]

Yes, AFR gauge set up pretty much like that, I can tell from it about what % alcohol the car thinks it’s running.
Yes, running the dual 285 pumps and they do hit 89% DC but I have not seen that often, they are lower now mostly around 84%, don’t know why, pumps bedded in and delivering more?? But YES, I’ll keep an eye on it. THANKS MUCH for the tip!!

My 93 portion of the flex tune has only 12 degrees of timing in it so I can hammer on it but just won’t get full potential out of it. If I go back on 93 for a planned long duration I’ll go back to my original 93 tune, it only takes a minute to load. I’ve had to do that often in the process of dialing in the % calculating portion of the tune.

I wouldn't read too much into the timing at max aircharge. It's the "area under the curve" that's more important. Chances are your max air charge is 1.90 mg and it's very rare you will hit that . It's just a way to protect its self if you ever do .

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[fubar569]

How's the injector DC? Who's tuning?

Yes the injectors have to be scaled spot on for trims in order for flex to work properly.

Yes they do. Especially the areas where you tend to cruise or idle a lot.

Mine would get stuck in a particular area and skew readings from time to time. I believe we have it mostly resolved.

I would like to baseline some good ethanol free 93 but that isnt likely. I think sheetz 93 reads about 11-14% inferred on my car. At 15-20% inference it starts to blend tables. Currently I'm about 8% tolerance on Inference from 40% thru 80%. I think I can do better but I'm not gonna mess with curt's work. It's pretty good.

 

[Speedy!]

Anything < 10% is good to go IMO. I think mine is 7% but I worked the trims A LOT because I know how to do it myself. 3% is ideal, but it takes a ton of time to get it that close. I set my tune on the conservative side for ethanol reading so if anything it reads less than actual but still reads E80+ on E85 so I'm good there.

Mine starts to "blend" around 40% ethanol.

 

[Speedy!]

I think it's a good idea to drive the car around and get the trims settled before beating on it .

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Absolutely a MUST. You have to make sure the car has picked up the fuel in the tank before getting on it.

 

[fubar569]

Anything < 10% is good to go IMO. I think mine is 7% but I worked the trims A LOT because I know how to do it myself. 3% is ideal, but it takes a ton of time to get it that close. I set my tune on the conservative side for ethanol reading so if anything it reads less than actual but still reads E80+ on E85 so I'm good there.

Mine starts to "blend" around 40% ethanol.

I log STFT+LTFT vs IPW for a histo instead of against fuel mass. The only thing to remember is fuel mass adjustments are inverse. Smaller = more. Larger = less...for those following along that didnt know that.

Is there anything in particular that you log to adjust this or is that pretty much it?

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Mines tracking E% pretty well now. I filled with with tested E83, it read E82 to E85 for a while but settled in at 78.5% for the remainder of the tank. I Burned a bunch off on the dyno and I then added 10 gallons of E73 on the way home, it said 69%. Burned off allot today, went to high E Station today and filled with 12 gallons of E83, it went up to 77.5 % and 6 1/4 pulls and 40 miles later is still reading 77.5%. Soon it will be time for winter storage and my plan is to splash it with 1/2 tank of 93 and see if it drops to around 45-50% or not then cut it in half again and see it it reads 20-25% or not. My E timing starts kicking in at 30% and ramps up to about 75% timing at 55%E then ramping to full timing in when it reads 85%E.
I agree with @Speedy! that I would rather it error on the lower side and read 5% low then 5% high

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

@Speedy! Did you install your Tapped under car inline filter yet? I’m on about my 6th tank of E and haven’t yet, planned to do it as a winter project but worrying that might be too late as that’s (hopefully) another 4-5-6 tanks away yet. How dirty is Ethanol??

 

[coolblue]

@Speedy! Did you install your Tapped under car inline filter yet? I’m on about my 6th tank of E and haven’t yet, planned to do it as a winter project but worrying that might be too late as that’s (hopefully) another 4-5-6 tanks away yet. How dirty is Ethanol??

I've heard alot about that and one of two reasons I'd be hesitant to run the flex. I've heard this stuff clogs up injectors after awhile, even on a regularly run vehicle. I was told it has a "varnish" type quality to it while running through motor in addition to more contaminants. Also, the affinity for water (like all alcohol) is not good for storage. I was surprised to hear you say you'd leave any in the tank over the winter.

 

[coolblue]

On my flex fuel tune I treat 93 as a "going to get groceries" fuel and don't hammer on it just to be on the safe side. Also, not sure how your tuner has your AFR gauge setup, but I like mine to read actual fuel AFR, so on 93 it reads 14.x at idle. E50 it's about 12.x, E60 11.x, E85 9.x etc. This way I know its doing it's thing properly.

Do you have the dual fuel pumps installed? I see your fuel pump DC is 89% which is max. Fuel pressure commanded is 94 and your at 90psi, so still "OK" but keep an eye on that.

Hey I thought you were a Lamda guy, not an old fart like me. LOL.

 

[Speedy!]

I did not install the filter. Factory flex fuel vehicles do not have additional filters that I'm aware of. The Speedway E85 I use had been crystal clear every time I've checked it.

I data log in lambda. Unfortunately the cars gauge displays AFR.

 

[FFBOS]

I've heard alot about that and one of two reasons I'd be hesitant to run the flex. I've heard this stuff clogs up injectors after awhile, even on a regularly run vehicle. I was told it has a "varnish" type quality to it while running through motor in addition to more contaminants. Also, the affinity for water (like all alcohol) is not good for storage. I was surprised to here you say you'd leave any in the tank over the winter.

I think gum up would only be an issue if sitting for lonnnnng periods.

 

[Hpindy]

I plan on having my injectors cleaned and tested from time to time anyway. Same with the filter socks in the tank . It's just preventative maintenance to me.

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[CatDaddyB5]

If you keep your car stored with a full tank of ethanol and some Lucas fuel stabilizer (not needed but I have used it for added safety) the injectors/fuel system components will be fine. The problems occur when the fuel system is “open” i.e. when the injectors are out, etc.

Quick and easy way to do some injector maintenance is to pull them out and use a power source (9V battery, jump box, car battery, etc) pulse them open, flush them with some sort of penetrate spray (WD40, PB Blaster, etc). I typically do each injector two times at minimum. This will remove all the ethanol and any possible “sticking/gumming” that might be present. Coming from the high performance import side, I’ve been doing this for years on many many 600+whp 4 cylinder vehicles.


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[FFBOS]

I plan on having my injectors cleaned and tested from time to time anyway. Same with the filter socks in the tank . It's just preventative maintenance to me.

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Not needed from what I saw over 3+ years so far. If you don’t drive in winter, fill it with 93 and it’s good to go.

I use a bottle of royal purple injector cleaner every 2000-3000 or so, does it do anything? No idea, but it has a lot of PEA in it like 93 has. I just can’t stand the smell of catless 93