Flex Fuel Tuning

[coolblue]

It looks like the graphs don't match the numbers on the sheet there? Kinda odd if I'm seeing it right. Stops at 760 and 840?

Was seeing that too. Look again, there's two sets of torque and HP curves. It's blue/green for the "juice" and blue/red for the gas (I assume) then follow them across the page, they correspond correctly. They dance in your eyes when you first glance I guess, cause I saw it that way too. LOL.

 

[Speedy!]

Was seeing that too. Look again, there's two sets of torque and HP curves. It's blue/green for the "juice" and blue/red for the gas (I assume) then follow them across the page, they correspond correctly. They dance in your eyes when you first glance I guess, cause I saw it that way too. LOL.

Actually I just saw what's going on. The dyno operator put HP on the left and Torque on the right, normally it's the other way around. Carry on LOL.

This is a great representation of how much power a degree of timing is worth. Mike told me to use 15hp as a rule of thumb and in this case it's about 13.6 so pretty close.

My 93 tune has quite a bit less than 14 degrees of timing. I have my knock sensors pretty much stock setting and I bumped my timing until I saw a degree of STKR then backed it off one degree. I don't run any boost additives with 93. On my alcohol timing map I've added about 6 degrees over what the 93 table has and went as high as 8 degrees and had ZERO STKR but backed it down a tick for the street. Mike kinda made a point with me, why lean on the motor for the street, save that for the track.

 

[Hpindy]

Ah Crap. I ran out of injector and my bypass valve is cutting me back to 12-13 psi of boost

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[fubar569]

My car continues to infer content on the high side but within about 8% so I'm not overly concerned about perfect. It's a little mild for the street too.

I do think I know what happened the first time around when I went to scale injectors so in theory I could work on it if I ever felt the need.

Within 2-3% is pretty damn close. Your injector data has to practically be dead nuts and your trims super accurate. Good work!

My LTFT are almost always 0 but when they're not it's only a cell or 2 and never more than +/- 3%. EQ Error typically less than 1%. STFT of course is all over hell like normal but at WOT I noticed it's much tighter on my E85 only tune (running same injector modeling) so there is work to be done somewhere if I ever felt so inclined.

I've also never read more than 90% ethanol. At any point. Even with an 8% bias and true tested E90 in the tank. Lol

 

[Speedy!]

Ah Crap. I ran out of injector and my bypass valve is cutting me back to 12-13 psi of boost

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Mix some 93 gas in to bring it down to E75 or so. You'll get plenty of benefit without being E90+

 

[fubar569]

Mix some 93 gas in to bring it down to E75 or so. You'll get plenty of benefit without being E90+

This.

On the V2 most of the benefits were found under E60. All of my timing in that car was in by E50.

Quickly diminishing returns from E60 to E100. Only thing I lost was IDC and Pump DC.

 

[Hpindy]

Mix some 93 gas in to bring it down to E75 or so. You'll get plenty of benefit without being E90+

This.

On the V2 most of the benefits were found under E60. All of my timing in that car was in by E50.

Quickly diminishing returns from E60 to E100. Only thing I lost was IDC and Pump DC.

I agree with this . Its all in the name of testing. I now now that I can't run 90% effectively lol . Tomorrow I will be diluted down bit.

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[fubar569]

I'm still mind blown you got it to read over 90% content.

I've never seen that at any point. Lol

 

[Hpindy]

I'm still mind blown you got it to read over 90% content.

I've never seen that at any point. Lol

I spent a lot of time dialing it in .

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[Hpindy]

I'm still mind blown you got it to read over 90% content.

I've never seen that at any point. Lol

One of the things I noticed is if you go from straight pump gas to a tank of E85 is I have to reset the adaptives for a really big ethanol swing . A few gallons here and there it work perfect .

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[fubar569]

I spent a lot of time dialing it in .

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Just injector scaling or anything else?

 

[Hpindy]

Just injector scaling or anything else?

Injector scaling and the flex fuel tables

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[coolblue]

This.

On the V2 most of the benefits were found under E60. All of my timing in that car was in by E50.

Quickly diminishing returns from E60 to E100. Only thing I lost was IDC and Pump DC.

This is why I was considering Curt's 'canned' flex tune for the RE, pre-done and ready to go. Even if within 10% accuracy on inferred your losses are almost nothing compared to 100% dead nuts on. But I didn't realize the diminishing returns started as early as 60%. That just more cements it for me.

 

[fubar569]

This is why I was considering Curt's 'canned' flex tune for the RE, pre-done and ready to go. Even if within 10% accuracy on inferred your losses are almost nothing compared to 100% dead nuts on. But I didn't realize the diminishing returns didn't start as early as 60%. That just more cements it for me.

There's definitely power to be had at higher percentages.

You just have to decide if it's really worth going after.

Most will get that easy first 50hp within the first 60% of the blend and they're pretty happy there.

It takes a lot more headroom in the fuel system to run at E98 than say E58...as Hpindy just found out.

 

[Hpindy]

I have serious OCD and I like to fine tune all my stuff the best of my ability. This is a learning experience for me . I will test the extreme on both ends just so I know what to do and what not to do .

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[Hpindy]

There's definitely power to be had at higher percentages.

You just have to decide if it's really worth going after.

Most will get that easy first 50hp within the first 60% of the blend and they're pretty happy there.

It takes a lot more headroom in the fuel system to run at E98 than say E58...as Hpindy just found out.

You can definitely run more timing at higher alcohol content with out the risk of knock but at the penalty of higher fuel volume need . If I had the proper injectors I'd be fine . Plus it smells better .

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[coolblue]

You can definitely run more timing at higher alcohol content with out the risk of knock but at the penalty of higher fuel volume need . If I had the proper injectors I'd be fine . Plus it smells better .

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Did you put a BAP, dual pumps, or RE/Demon pump's in there also?

 

[Hpindy]

Did you put a BAP, dual pumps, or RE/Demon pump's in there also?

I only have the injected engineering dual pump system and ID 1050X .

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[fubar569]

I have the IE kit with twin 285's and FIC1200's.

I still have a bit of headroom left at inferred E90.

In retrospect however I may have done the ID's instead but any injector this size and up tend to become a little non-linear in the very low side of the ipw/mass tables. Some more than others.

 

[Speedy!]

Keep in mind there's a limit to how much power an engine will make with added timing. You get to a point where you add timing and the engine doesn't make anymore, so really it's about finding the right fuel for your setup. Those running 20+ psi and 21 degrees of timing probably need something like E98. Those running less boost need less octane. Dialing that in is where a dyno is actually useful.