Volumetric EfficeincyTuning Using the Speed Density Principle

[fumanchu182]

ANN can for sure handle E85.

You can simply rescale the injectors, but I like my dash to read the AFR of the fuel I'm running, so I reset the fueling to match that of E85. It's pretty straight forward but most pro tuners don't do it for some reason. Maybe to keep from confusing customers or something.

Bottom line when I have E85 in the tank and my E85 tune loaded I see like 9.5 or so AFR at idle on the dash which is correct for stoich on E85.

Got it, so you are changing the FAR value in the FA Stoich table entry, correct? Then multiplying the injector values by 30%, genius. Wonder how this affects startup injector values as well. More things for me to ponder.

 

[Speedy!]

Yep, that's pretty much it. 30% is just a rough guide, I just used a starting point and drove/data logged to dial them in.

Yes, startup injector gets modified as well. Takes more to light off on E85. Just ease in to that you don't wanna get it too much and risk hydrolocking or something.

 

[jonx96]

There are more than just the fuel--> stoich tables that needs updated. Quite a few tables need adjustment. I did it after I left my previous tuner. It was a pain for me to learn especially since HP Tuners was missing half the tables I needed to make it properly display.
I have a list I recently made of some of the tables needed for this because @vortecd was missing a lot of them as well so I had to send support an email to get them added. So if you get stuck let us know and we can help. I don't know what the hemi tuning school books cover. But I'd think they'd cover e85. I guess not.

 

[Speedy!]

Hopefully with his being a 2015 he'll be g2g in HPT but I think I remember about 10 maybe 12 tables that need adjusting for stoich. Been a while.

 

[white1]

ANN can for sure handle E85.

You can simply rescale the injectors, but I like my dash to read the AFR of the fuel I'm running, so I reset the fueling to match that of E85. It's pretty straight forward but most pro tuners don't do it for some reason. Maybe to keep from confusing customers or something.

Bottom line when I have E85 in the tank and my E85 tune loaded I see like 9.5 or so AFR at idle on the dash which is correct for stoich on E85.

for some reason sometimes changing stoic works well. Other times it does not.
In the past I’ve been successful doing that.
however on several cars (mine included) that did not work as I had expected so I had to add fuel to the injectors.
Personally I would like my AFR to read in Lambda but I’m more familiar with gasoline afr numbers so I’m fine with it reading that way.
I get you wanting it to read for fuel in the tank as well.

when I go true SD (ANN off) I’ll make a dyno pull before and then after. I’m more curious if there will be any power to be had or not.

I’ll update when I do it for everyone to see. Good or bad

 

[Speedy!]

One thing I should clarify. If you reset the car to run stoich for E85, you don't need 30% more on the injector pw vs fuel mass a fuel mass vs pw. You just tune the injectors with the normal injector data and fine tune from there. The stoich change sets the car up as if it came from the factory to run E85 so everything else works as normal. I hope that makes sense.

 

[fumanchu182]

Shelving this topic till a later date. @Speedy! mentioned that E85 is possible with ANN on so I want to investigate that route first.

 

[white1]

One thing I should clarify. If you reset the car to run stoich for E85, you don't need 30% more on the injector pw vs fuel mass a fuel mass vs pw. You just tune the injectors with the normal injector data and fine tune from there. The stoich change sets the car up as if it came from the factory to run E85 so everything else works as normal. I hope that makes sense.

Correct!
On my car changing stoich confused it, so I had to add on the injpw vs fuel mass and vice versa

 

[Hpindy]

I turned of ANN but keep the power enrichment tables for my car once I installed my camshaft . I tried to tune my car with ANN on after the cam . The car ran ok but it was inconsistent with the fueling . If I got it to idled with in 3% then when I would drive it and it would the same pulse width the fueling would be of by 10% . Or vice versa.
I switched over to VE tuning and my car runs sooo much better. Smoother everything just around better .
The ANN works great if you can stay with in its limits . It's mainly for emissions reasons though. After playing with the stock hellcat cam, stock demon cam and now my new cam in my opinion the stock cams are really lame and giving up a lot in the name of emissions .


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[jonx96]

I turned of ANN but keep the power enrichment tables for my car once I installed my camshaft . I tried to tune my car with ANN on after the cam . The car ran ok but it was inconsistent with the fueling . If I got it to idled with in 3% then when I would drive it and it would the same pulse width the fueling would be of by 10% . Or vice versa.
I switched over to VE tuning and my car runs sooo much better. Smoother everything just around better .
The ANN works great if you can stay with in its limits . It's mainly for emissions reasons though. After playing with the stock hellcat cam, stock demon cam and now my new cam in my opinion the stock cams are really lame and giving up a lot in the name of emissions .


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I’ll have to look when I get back to my laptop. I think there is a table under the VE section you can tune to help with just that issue.
but you are right. Bigger blower, heads and cam I think ANN needs turned off.

 

[jonx96]

@Hpindy Looks like the table I was thinking of was 44281 VE ECT Mult. Would that table be enough to fix the cam issue? IDK.

 

[Hpindy]

@Hpindy Looks like the table I was thinking of was 44281 VE ECT Mult. Would that table be enough to fix the cam issue? IDK.

Yes that helped once I turned ANN off .
My car runs better now then when ANN was on with the stock demon cam . I think I have been on or just over the edge of the ANN parameters for a while .and just didn't know it .

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